Devuan is a dutch Linux distro free of systemd
Devuan GNU+Linux
Welcome to devuan.org | Devuan GNU+Linux Free Operating System
Free GNU+Linux base OS. Devuan is a fork of Debian without systemd. Devuan provides a safe upgrade path from Debian, to ensure the right to Init Freedom and avoid entanglement.
What’s the issue with systemd?
I was shy about Linux for far too long, but have jumped in with both feet recently.
If you need to ask, it most certainly doesn’t matter to you. Keep using what you are using.
The main concerns are:
That being said, if it works fine for you and those problems don’t bother you there’s not much reason to use something else.
Yeah, CachyOS has been working just fine for me. And while both of those points raise an eyebrow for me, I have also heard things about the Cachy team that do the same. Perfect can’t be the enemy of good enough. Though to that second point you raised, I just watched a [Veritasium?] video recently on how just such a system-level package was very nearly compromised by what has all the hallmarks of a malicious state actor precisely because it was so seemingly innocuous and open.
I appreciate the clear and concise explanation. Cheers, friend.
I use it and it does the job, but the problem is that it doesn’t adhere to Unix philosophy of pluggable components that do one thing. In fact, the systemd suite does dozens of things:
…poorly.
Your browser doesn’t follow the unix philosophy: Downloading a site is 1 job, rendering another one. Do change that to?
People keep mentioning this. It’s not actually a problem
It’s not even a good philosophy anymore (although, not actually even sure where this statement originated). The Linux kernel does more than 1 thing. So does Gnome, KDE, etc.
The old init scripts did “one thing”, but, because they did too little, the scripts were difficult to write, there were issues like race conditions, etc.
Anyone who ever wrote a SysV script would tell you what an absolute nightmare they were… Whereas, SystemD, even more complex ones which depend on a lot of factors are now easy (and only a few lines).
systemd init scripts are more ergonomic than sysvinit scripts. I agree.
Does systemd work? Yes. Can I live with it? Yes. I’ve embraced it since it became a de facto standard.
The thing I somewhat dislike is that you cannot easily replace individual systemd components. The systemd-logind and systemd-journald for example have to be compiled from the exact same systemd version (e.g. both v234). There are way more gotchas like that if you try to replace them for non-systemd alternatives.
If you’re solely interested in having a working OS then it’s all good. If you like to tinker and learn, and want to fully embrace Unix modularity mindset then systemd made your life a little more difficult in that aspect.
Also I’m glad that distributions like Void Linux, Guix or Devuan from this post title exist that try another approach. I hope one day I’ll have enough time to daily drive them!
So does coreutils.
Don’t put all your fruit in one basket applies.
There is no issue with systemd. It has been a huge improvement over what was there and it is still improving.
It makes the system consistent without having to configure it using arcane shell scripts. It gives you easy to read config files. It just makes the administrator’s life easier.
I think the main problem here is that now there’s a high reliance on systemd tools in the GNU/Linux ecosystem, limiting users freedom.
Everything you just said is false.
Sorry. But, imho, you’re wrong :)
Init scripts are the equivalent of using a perl script as the kernel programming language. They were crappy, hard to read, hard to modify, hard to maintain.
The biggest objection against Systemd as it stands today was because Linus had an opinion about it (but, admits something like it is needed), and the assumption that redhat == bad, so therefore Systemd == bad
It’s one of those silly arguments that is repeated, by the “OMG, but wayland doesn’t have network transparency” crowd. Everyone else just gets shit done (like the pulseaudio crowd) which is why this stuff was heavily adopted
Ah, well, there you have it! One certainly cannot argue with such an overwhelming barrage of evidence and nuanced analysis.
Basically systemd is not just a replacement for init, it’s a huge project which reimplements a lot of “legacy” services that were handled by other packages. So people think it steps over its boundaries. Not being very Unix-y.
That said, anything is better than bloody sysvinit. Kids these days don’t know how much jank and spaghetti we had to deal with back in those crappy days
There is none these days
Some people overreacted.
In practice, it’s basically been a huge benefit for Linux and fixed a lot of issues
I use it, works well.
The distro also uses the German XFCE
Gonna stick with my CachyOS for now
Good choice! Prioritising a custom kernel for quicker performance. Swapping out the Init system is tricky.
I love devuan!!