gender neutrule terminology
transcript
Screenshot of a tweet by @feralhousepuppy: hey so you’ve been calling me “bro”, “man”, and “dude” a lot and it’s really invalidating to my masculinity cause those are all gender neutral things you call trans women :/
I really wish there was a word that was as useful as “dude” but without the gender connotation.
I tried swapping to “fam” and “cuz” but those felt appropriated, I tried “gamer” and “chat” but those felt irony-poisoned, “Sis” and “girl” feel performative. So “dude” it shall be until someone tells me it’s bad, and then they get no objective article at all.
I mean the golden rule with how you speak about people is really just to listen to what people tell you about what makes them feel respected
So feel free to use dude gender neutrally if thats how you speak, and if someone says they don’t feel good in it, stop. If youre worried it might not feel great for someone you can always just say you’re used to using it gender neutrally and ask 🤷🏻♂️
"dude" always felt gender neutral to me (though do note English is my fourth language...).
And if you look at the etymology of the word, gender neutrality makes some sense.
It started out as slang in the late 1800s mocking "hyper-fashionable young urban men".
Then the early 20th century it transformed to describe tourists from the East Coast on the Western side of the country (see "dude ranches").
And then in the 60-70s it transformed thanks to surfer slang, back to being male oriented.
I'd say if you're uncomfortable with the "dude" form of the term... use "dood" instead. Or even "d00d" if you're feeling l33t h4xx0r.
So in your examples, it went from making fun of a type of men, to referring to the overwhelmingly-male owners of hobby ranches, to referring to male surfers.
When exactly was it ever gender neutral?
No...
You got the second part wrong. It wasn't the "overwhelmingly male owners of hobby ranches" that were called dudes, but, if you read my comment again, you'll notice I specifically said the UNGENDERED tourists hailing from the east coast - primarily city folk - visiting rural western areas, ranches.
The 80s and 90s skater culture. We’re all dudes youtu.be/iKYXmjfQY4U
Gendered terms actually very often have really weird etymologies. You’d be surprised how many words for women used to refer to children of any gender (which could be a whole discussion by itself).
I think the australians have this figured out with “mate”
Nah, mate is as gendered as dude. Like sure some woman won’t mind, but it’s mostly men being called mate by other men.
No straight man is going to be like “I had sex with my mate” when talking about say a fwb.
Nah, women can easily be mates, it’s not a gendered term at all any more.
been using “m8” for too long, that I don’t think I’m call’em “benefits.” @That point: “tis my partner[s]” or “oh em? that’s ma spotter/coach.”
Mate doesn’t pluralise well though, ‘I’m going out with my mates’ is fine but ‘hi mates’ sounds wrong. Also a lot of it is in the delivery, calling someone ‘mate’ can be anything from friendly to neutral to hostile depending on the tone and the words which precede it.
Of course “Hi mates!” feels wrong, it needs to be either “g’day mates” or “ahoy mateys” or “oy mates”…
Sorry.
Btw. you have the same “problem” (imho, feature) of tone determining level of friendliness with dude, dude. And partly even with bro, though bro feels harder to turn unfriendly when adressing someone.
For me, “Hi mates” or “oy mates” sounds completely okay, but I’m a non-native speaker.
I prefer homie
Comrade!
Tovarășe! Să trăiți!
I don’t like dude as gender neutral and don’t think I ever will. I’ll stick with “fam,” “friend,” and “homie” (then again, I am Hispanic, so that might not work for everyone)
“cunt” kinda works
Always thought mate was fantastic but it sounds weird when Americans use it
Well, I’m Canadian, but I assure you it doesn’t sound any better coming from us.
America should refer to the continent anyway
just say “baby”.
Thanks, baby! :D
hmnawawwaw---- yea see, like, that works maybe and when it does it usually makes the recipient excited which is a wonderful bonus ~
bae 2
hmm i can see it but that one would be more difficult to read when you aren’t used to it.
when saying it. it’s a very open-mouthed sound so peeps will probably think they didn’t understand you right, while
babyhas a rather distinct and complete-feeling kinda sound i think.EDIT: it would sound nice tho once peeps know you use that sound-word for everyone >v<
ya, “bae” in very district.
let’s go for: hello beings
I too am entering the conversation. Hello fellow resident of Earth.
hello dear feathercrown being, user of the earthwide digital interwebs, you hereby might feel officially welcomed
I full use hello beings when my brain is unsure what to call everyone. I also like all y’all.
personally a fan of comrade, friend or pal.
but i also really kinda do use guy and dude gender neutrally. Accidentally have called everyone i know dude at some point. P sure i called my mom dude several timea.
but also aware some people dont like that so i makr a point of asking if know/suspect theyve a non cis gender identity, or correct as needed if asked.
people only really take it badly if its the first time meeting and theres doubt to ones priorities. People are generally very forgiving if you establish intent and willingness to respect each other in my experience
“what up cuh”
Me omw to commit auditory blackface to avoid using a mostly gender-neutral term gender neutrally
I mentioned “cat” elsewhere but this morning I remember Mr. Rogers called us all “neighbor” and I think it could work.
just gonna end up sounding like ned flanders. Not the worst thing to come of ass tho, if you look past the religous dogma. Always friendly, and he has a great ass
“howdy folks 🤠”
Dudette! Though I honestly stick with dude, i use dudette only if it bothers them;
Comrade?
add.:
Imo new words should be created for these things. Like how about
zude?I like folks but it’s pleural so only works for groups.
Folks is plural, neighbor.
Pleural refers to the lungs and the space that holds them, like “pleural effusions” and “pleurisy.”
Damn autocorrect. Ta.
I used to work with some proper manly-men; ex military, oil rig workers, lumber jacks etc. You get the picture.
The amount of times people get called “babe” and “sweet cheeks” etc. was dizzying - as was the constant vague alluding to the wanting of doing horrifically outlandish sexual stuff to each other.
Weird, but fun, vibe all around.
Did you work in the gay steel mill from the Simpsons?
thats just all the steel mills
Please trust when I say it’s exceedingly normal in blue collar. Also, everyone doing those jokes is highly homophobic
I’m white collar and we make those jokes all the time
Not that I remember… which I assume I would.
Me again.
Just looked that up on the ‘tube. Lol.
It weren’t nothing like that; we had a far far lower moustache per man ratio.
It’s just dudes who are secure in their sexuality and masculinity. It’s the insecure ones ruining it for everyone.
Isn’t the “alluding of wanting sexual stuff” just homophobia? Was anyone of them actually gay? Would they accept an openly gay person in their manly group? For me it sounds like “guys, look, I’m gay! how degrading and self-deprecating of me. can you imagine anyone here actually being gay? hilarious!”. I heard the same things from military friends and they are the most right-wing people I know. I have hard time believing their “gay jokes” are just innocent teasing. But I don’t know, maybe?
Yeah - I hear what you’re saying but it was probably closer to “gay chicken” rather than anything else.
You’d bend down for the hundredth time that day to pick up something and you just hear a distant “mmmhmm” or an “oh yeah, baby”
One guy, if I hadn’t worked with him for a while, used to hug me, sniff me aggressively and then, whilst maintaining eye contact, tell me that he’d missed my smell. And then kiss me on the forehead.
One (openly) gay guy worked, tangentially, with us and came to a works do one year. He declared, in the first pub, that he was gonna turn one of us before the end of the night. I’m not sure if he succeeded… but he stayed the course of the night and seemed to enjoy himself.
Machismo is evolving. Slowly, but its happening!
I subscribe to the good burger use of dude.
The one that gets me is ‘bud’ I had a roommate that would all ways say things like ‘yeah bud. that’s because ****’ when explaining anything and I had to put a firm stop to it. It was so patronizing.
You’re not a bud. You’re fully bloomed.
Were they from Maine or Michigan by any chance?
Kansas
i like being called bud cuz it makes me feel small.
I like bud, but don’t like being patronized.
Makes me think of the, “I’m not your pal, buddy!” Canadians skit from South Park
In Spanish we just say “you”. It’s really terrible in Arabic where you have feminine and masculine “you”.
Apparently some Arabic-speaking enbys use the dual form أنتما but as most dialects have lost dual inflections, that’s not really practical in day-to-day speech.
Hack Túo o Hack Túa?
I have officially lost complete connection with what the kids are talking about these days
If you’re me, you can say, “sup, y’all”
For more context, this works when greeting one person or a group. If you need to specify that you’re addressing the group, the plural of “y’all” is “all y’all”.
southern privilage of having informal plural “you”
I really wish inheritantly masculine words weren’t always ending up the “gender neutral” defaults.
I can’t help but feel like ever since being out over the last 2 years, friends are calling me “man” or “dude” in a neutral sense way more often than they ever did before despite them being supportive and it just feels too me like petting a cat in the wrong direction. I know I need to be more vocal in it making me uncomfortable but I’ve always tried to avoid confrontation so it’s hard
“Guys” and “dude” are gender neutral in my book.
“Dude” is a hill I’ll die on. We already tried “dudette” in the 80s/90s. It was pretty universally hated. Dude was established as the preferred gender neutral term in the late 90s/early 00s at the great council of high school students.
i fucking hate being called bro (ignore my username its outdated)
you can change how your display name is presented, it doesn’t have to be your username.
I’m pretty sure you can change your display name on Lemmy.
Listen up my hoopy froods, when settling on inclusive gender neutral terms don’t forget your towel
I’ve found that “homie” works well
youtube.com/watch?v=0el-KGXGaTc
Good Burger shoulda taught you we all dudes